NEAL CONAN, HOST:
That is TALK OF THE NATION. I am Neal Conan, in Washington. As a few of it’s possible you’ll know, this program started within the disaster that led as much as what we now name the primary Gulf Battle, in 1991, as Daniel Schorr and I anchored dwell protection of briefings from the White Home and the Pentagon and congressional hearings.
I acquired referred to as away to different duties, so Dan took over, and when occasions failed to start out on time, he took telephone calls. As this program wraps up at this time, our visitor is one other nice broadcaster, greatest recognized for a program born in one other disaster: the Iranian hostage disaster again in 1979. On “Nightline,” Ted Koppel supplied indelible and indispensible protection of that and a thousand different tales.
It has been our privilege to incorporate him as a commentator on this program over the previous a number of years, and on our final day, we could not consider a greater option to conclude the collection of conversations we have referred to as Trying Forward than to name on Ted Koppel. And, in fact, we wish to hear from you, too.
What makes you imagine the long run might be higher? What retains you up at night time? Our telephone quantity: 800-989-8255. Electronic mail us: speak@npr.org. You may also be part of the dialog on our web site. That is at npr.org. Click on on TALK OF THE NATION. And Ted Koppel joins us at this time from member station WBEZ in Chicago. Ted, it is at all times a pleasure to have you ever on this system.
TED KOPPEL, BYLINE: Whats up, Neal. I used to be simply considering, you recognize, possibly we have to clarify the logic of getting me on for this final program to all of your many mourning followers on the market. I feel it is merely in order that we are able to spend a couple of minutes looking world wide, in order that by the top of this system, individuals will say it is horrible that Neal goes. It is horrible that TALK OF THE NATION goes, however there are even worse issues happening on the market in the remainder of the world.
(LAUGHTER)
KOPPEL: I believe we’ll contact on a couple of of these.
CONAN: Nicely, I needed to ask you, sure, to numerous us, it appears to be like like an extremely harmful world. The USA is economically weak. It is being challenged by China in a single a part of the world, and that, to some individuals, appears fairly harmful, as a brand new nationalistic energy begins to flex its muscle tissues in areas, effectively, the place there are not any guidelines. We take a look at the Center East, and it looks as if the cauldron in Syria is spilling over into different international locations and will ignite a much wider warfare, that the battle that lots of people feared may occur with Iran over its nuclear program might erupt in, effectively, any of a half a dozen different methods.
And now we take a look at a state of affairs the place – I needed to ask you: There was a unprecedented piece written within the New York Occasions a pair, three days in the past, by Richard Haass on the Council on Overseas Relations, who we each know. And he stated, in reality, what we – the place we’re is at a second the place the USA can breathe somewhat bit simpler than it might prior to now, that there aren’t any existential threats, and we have to get our financial home so as and, effectively, simply keep out of bother in the remainder of the world.
KOPPEL: Yeah, I feel Richard’s important level – and also you’re proper. He’s an outdated buddy to each of us. However I feel his important level was that maybe this could be an opportune time for the USA to focus extra on the inner issues that we now have and the home points that have to be resolved. I definitely agree with him on that. I am undecided that I agree with the opposite level that you simply made that he places forth in his op-ed piece, particularly that the hazards on the market will not be as nice as they have been earlier than.
I feel, fairly frankly, we live in essentially the most harmful instances that I’ve recognized in my grownup lifetime.
CONAN: And Ted shouldn’t be a younger man anymore, so we’re together with the Chilly Battle.
(LAUGHTER)
KOPPEL: No, you are precisely proper. I imply, I used to be born in 1940. In order that – sure, I wasn’t terribly aware of World Battle II, however by the point the Korean Battle got here alongside, I used to be paying consideration. And by the point Vietnam got here alongside, I used to be there. So I’m together with these instances.
I feel we dwell – and I am together with the instances of the Chilly Battle. The Chilly Battle was doubtlessly, vastly harmful. Clearly, the potential of nuclear warfare between the Soviet Union and the USA dwarfs something that we’re confronting at this time, and mercifully, that risk appears to have eased considerably.
However the truth of the matter was that the Soviet Union and the USA managed to take care of an uneasy kind of stability all through the world, which even had an acronym, this notion of mutual assured destruction: We cannot do it to you, as a result of we all know what you are going to have the ability to do to us after we have completed it to you.
That does not exist anymore. We aren’t essentially coping with nice nation-states anymore. They do not symbolize the large risk. The massive threats now are the Hezbollahs and the al-Qaidas and the varied teams world wide whose names we do not even know. However the people who, both via the usage of explosives or maybe chemical weapons or organic weapons or one thing that you simply and I’ve talked about earlier than, cyber-warfare, are in a position to inflict monumental harm with out our realizing the place it is coming from.
CONAN: And the fascinating a part of it’s that there are – we have been having a collection of conversations with our correspondent within the Center East, Deborah Amos, one other outdated buddy. And he or she has been speaking in regards to the ratcheting up of rhetoric within the battle in Syria, and the entire nations round it, as Shiite teams and Sunni teams demonize one another in a approach that has not been seen in our lifetimes. And that makes that battle a lot extra harmful as they discover methods to, effectively, excuses to kill one another off.
KOPPEL: Nicely, and while you discuss the truth that there are effectively over a billion Muslims on this planet, you understand – and, you recognize, that sort of warfare between the Sunni and the Shia, that may unfold to components of the world we have not even included in our dialog about the place hazard lies: the Philippines, Indonesia, to me, nonetheless essentially the most harmful nation on this planet, Pakistan, which has over 100 nuclear warheads, possibly at the moment, as many as 200 nuclear warheads. And the existential concern that has nagged everybody working for the U.S. administration – going all the way in which again now to 9/11 in 2001 and earlier than – that one in all these weapons, these weapons of mass destruction, will find yourself within the arms of a terrorist group that’s able to bringing it into the USA.
That’s nonetheless what scares the hell out of everyone. And fairly frankly, Neal, what worries me shouldn’t be a lot that hazard alone, however the method wherein we, as a nation, have responded to it: two wars, neither of which has gone effectively for the USA. The warfare in Iraq didn’t end up effectively. The warfare in Afghanistan shouldn’t be turning out effectively.
And we now have turned ourselves as a nation inside-out, each economically, and when it comes to a number of the systemic and organizational adjustments which have been made all within the title of nationwide safety. And, you recognize, we are able to get into any a kind of points, clearly.
CONAN: But some would say, as tough as that has been, as basically altering of our society that has been in some ways, it has largely labored. There have been, sure, incidents, Fort Hood, sure, Boston. And as dangerous as these have been, they don’t seem to be on the dimensions of 9/11, and the nation shouldn’t be in the identical place because it was 11 years in the past.
KOPPEL: No, you are precisely proper, however that is not the best hazard. The best hazard shouldn’t be what others do to us. The best hazard is what we do to ourselves. And for those who think about the variety of lives which have been misplaced, the variety of lives which have been broken eternally, the character of this safety behemoth that has been constructed up in the USA now – whether or not it is on the comparatively trivial degree of the oldsters in uniforms now that we see on the airports, to the notion of what is been completed to encroach upon privateness on this nation, the amount of cash that has spent.
You realize, we hold speaking about, you recognize, the trillions that this, you recognize, that this nation owes. Nicely, two to three trillion has been spent on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and I’d argue that we’re worse off in Iraq at this time than we have been earlier than the warfare. And we could also be worse off in Afghanistan. That also stays to be seen.
And once I say we’re worse off in Iraq, what I imply is that the steadiness within the Persian Gulf between Iran and Iraq was stored in a kind of uneasy equilibrium by Saddam Hussein, of all individuals. The truth that he’s now gone has meant the world to the Iranians. Iran is now most likely as influential, if no more influential, in Iraq than we’re.
CONAN: Nicely, Ted, you’ve got given us numerous causes to purchase inventory in Sominex. I do should ask you, although: Are there issues, as you look across the nation, as you journey round, that offer you hope?
(LAUGHTER)
KOPPEL: Neal, I hate to do it, however you’ve got set me up for this. No. I assume that I am extra of a pessimist than an optimist, and I am positive we’ll get a lot of good individuals calling in – I hope we do – who will clarify to me how incorrect I’m and why I am incorrect. There’s not a terrific deal that does give me optimism proper now.
I’m not vastly optimistic in regards to the nature of communication on this nation. I feel we now have trivialized communication to the purpose that every thing now could be decreased to snippets of thought. We reply in nanoseconds to at least one one other. Reflection, thought are more and more turning into a factor of the previous. So no, I do not imply to be, you recognize, a complete idiot about this. I am positive there are lots of great issues which can be nonetheless happening.
And as an immigrant who got here to this nation on the age of 13 from England, I really like the USA deeply. I would not dwell wherever else on this planet, for something. However that is exactly why I am so pessimistic and why I am so depressed by it.
CONAN: Due to the issues we’re keen to do to ourselves in concern?
KOPPEL: Nicely, it is not even a lot what we’re keen to do to ourselves. It is what we’re doing to ourselves. I used to be speaking – as you identified at first, I am out right here at WBEZ in Chicago, and I used to be speaking to a younger producer, a reporter right here who’s engaged on a collection that he hopes to do on people who find themselves dying within the jail system right here in Illinois.
And there have been 200 deaths, he was telling me, over the past couple of years. A few of them are as younger as individuals of their 20s. Most of them are below the age of 53. And in giant measure, that is occurring due to the privatization of the well being system in our prisons.
And we’re privatizing ourselves into one catastrophe after one other. We have privatized numerous what our army is doing. We have privatized numerous what our intelligence businesses are doing. We have privatized our very jail system in lots of components of the nation. We’re privatizing the well being system inside these prisons. And it is not working effectively.
CONAN: What makes you imagine the long run might be higher? What retains you up at night time? 800-989-8255 is our telephone quantity. Electronic mail us: speak@npr.org. Ted Koppel will stick with us. Extra in a minute. I am Neal Conan. It is the TALK OF THE NATION, from NPR Information.
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CONAN: That is TALK OF THE NATION from NPR Information. I am Neal Conan. Over time, Ted Koppel has joined us to speak about every thing from an evolving China to the talk over torture, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, turmoil in Syria, presidential energy on this nation, the altering new enterprise. We have requested him again at this time one final time to assist warp up our collection of conversations referred to as Trying Forward.
We’re taking the vast view this time. Name, inform us, what makes you imagine the long run might be higher? What retains you up at night time? 800-989-8255. Electronic mail us, speak@npr.org. You may also be part of the dialog on our web site. That is at npr.org. Click on on TALK OF THE NATION. We’ll go to Cher(ph), Cher with us on the road from San Antonio.
CHER: Sure, hello. Let me thanks earlier than I begin with my remark. I’m very looking forward to my nephews. Thanks on your great programming.
CONAN: Thanks.
CHER: I wish to say that I’m looking forward to my nephews. I am not married. However the factor is that has stored me joyful or provides me pleasure sooner or later is although we – once I first heard that they’d reduce out the 2 sections of the Civil Rights Act of ’65, I had a sinking feeling in my abdomen all day lengthy and in a part of the night time. I nonetheless really feel hopeful as a result of my family historical past, we now have been right here 18 generations.
We first, our Spanish facet of the household came visiting within the 1500s, and we have survived the oppression from the, effectively, the U.S. invasion of Mexico. And we have seen the place lands have been taken away, the place Texas rangers used to go to south Texas to – for Saturday night time leisure used to hold Mexicans and Niggers. And however even then my household, as a result of they have been very sturdy Catholic survivors, they imagine in God’s will and obtained power from their religion.
I can level to my mother and pop, who sacrificed so much to ship myself and my siblings to personal college. We by no means attended public faculties. And it was due to the U.S. financial system. However now, the factor is now we now have to return and combat the civil rights wrestle once more, and…
CONAN: Cher, I am positive you meant the Voting Rights Act is what the Supreme Court docket dominated on. And it was – needed to carry Ted in, fascinating to look at this week in the USA Supreme Court docket the place so many, and we noticed John Lewis and the ache on his face as he was responding to the Supreme Court docket choice and asking them to take a stroll in his sneakers to assume that the voting rights that had been granted couldn’t be taken away.
After which the subsequent day to listen to the Supreme Court docket revolutionize considering on homosexual marriage.
I used to be about to say you – it is most likely been one of many extra historic weeks for the Supreme Court docket, definitely step again when it comes to civil rights so far as the races are involved however clearly a step ahead when it comes to rights for homosexual Individuals. Curious that the identical factor, that, you recognize, a step again and a step ahead would occur with the identical court docket in the identical week, however it did.
Cher, thanks very a lot, and thanks for reminding us of the lengthy and tough interval that your individuals have survived and the explanations that they’re powerful sufficient to sit up for the long run.
CHER: Sure, we are going to, and God bless for no matter your endeavors. And do come again and tell us how and what you are doing. Thanks.
CONAN: All proper, thanks very a lot, Cher.
CHER: God bless you.
CONAN: Thanks. Ted, I additionally needed to ask you in regards to the instance of a person who lies dying in South Africa at this time.
KOPPEL: Nelson Mandela, sure.
CONAN: Certainly.
KOPPEL: A unprecedented man. It provides me an opportunity, Neal, to kind of play this sport I generally play with buddies and say, you recognize, for those who return to the Nineteen Thirties and the Nineteen Forties, and for those who take, with out regard to good or dangerous, merely the phrase nice and apply it to leaders, then you definately would, you recognize, clearly have Mao and Stalin and Hitler and Roosevelt and Churchill and de Gaulle.
I imply, the checklist goes on and on and on of nice leaders. Now play the sport at this time. If I have been to say to you, Neal Conan, overlook about Nelson Mandela for a second as a result of I feel he is the exception to the rule, title two or three nice leaders at this time.
CONAN: Joe Torre was a hell of a supervisor for the Yankees.
(LAUGHTER)
KOPPEL: Sure, he was. No, I do not imply to place you on the spot as a result of I even have a concept as to why that’s. I feel in some measure it is our fault. After I say our fault, I imply the media. The actual fact of the matter is that many Individuals, most Individuals, did not even know that FDR was affected by polio, that he was in a wheelchair, as a result of the press in these days, the media have been complicit in maintaining that secret from the American public.
The world public did not essentially know very a lot about these leaders. They definitely did not know in a number of the extra tyrannical societies how evil a few of these individuals have been. However the truth of the matter is we now know a lot about our leaders, we all know a lot about everyone that it’s totally exhausting to take care of any sort of heroic stature.
And maybe the factor that singles Nelson Mandela out is exactly the truth that he was remoted for nearly 27 years of his life in jail. Now in fact his biggest achievement was when he got here out, was not solely in not looking for revenge for what had occurred below Apartheid, however removed from that, looking for tolerance on each side and making an attempt to carry some sort of racial calm and political calm to South Africa, which for some time he and one other heroic determine, de Klerk, succeeded in doing.
CONAN: Let’s get one other caller in on the dialog. Let’s go to Maureen(ph), Maureen with us from St. Louis.
MAUREEN: Hello.
CONAN: Hello.
MAUREEN: Can I be cautiously optimistic?
CONAN: Certain.
KOPPEL: Oh, please.
MAUREEN: Of the long run? My thoughts at all times goes again to an interview I noticed Paul Tsongas do in 1993, and on the time he stated for those who’re 30 years outdated at this time, you are not going to dwell the retirement that your mother and father are. And I at all times keep in mind that. It caught with me as a result of I used to be 30 years outdated on the time. And now in fact I understand he was precisely proper.
You realize, my husband and I might need to sadly, work till we will not stand anymore. And possibly we cannot have the ability to assist our youngsters an excessive amount of with faculty or, you recognize, possibly somewhat bit with a home. In order that’s sort of my concern.
KOPPEL: Wait a second, is that the optimistic be aware you have been going to inject into this…?
CONAN: I used to be simply going to ask the place’s the optimistic half.
(LAUGHTER)
MAUREEN: Nicely, the optimistic half is I’ve acquired a job, and I’ve nice insurance coverage.
CONAN: Nicely, congratulations on the job, and we hope and sit up for your completely satisfied retirement, Maureen.
MAUREEN: Neal, thanks, and Neal, if I might simply say one factor, a minimum of a couple of times every week, I need to inform my husband that Neal Conan is sensible.
(LAUGHTER)
CONAN: Nicely, it is fascinating…
MAUREEN: I am unable to let you know how a lot we will miss you.
CONAN: Only a few of the individuals who really know me say that.
MAUREEN: Nicely, thanks a lot and your workers for all you’ve got completed.
CONAN: Thanks a lot, recognize the telephone name.
KOPPEL: Neal, if I have been you, I might put that on a loop and play it at residence.
CONAN: I wish to learn some emails, this from Anna(ph): Actually what retains me most up at night time is the long run, and what retains me up at night time is local weather change, not political conflicts however the tempo at which people are altering the planet and potential results it is going to have for all of us.
This from Tina(ph): If we are able to get company cash out of American politics, the long run might be vibrant. If we will not, it is not going to. This from Casey(ph): Not having the ability to take heed to my dad on the radio anymore. That is my daughter.
(LAUGHTER)
CONAN: Good run, she says. Thanks very a lot, Casey. What retains me up at night time are drone assaults world wide, spying right here at residence, as Ted Koppel stated, it is a behemoth, one which’s been constructed up behind a wall of aggressive secrecy by non-public contractors hidden even from our personal Congress. This isn’t democratic. This isn’t secure. This isn’t sustainable. As for hope, my daughter, she is the rationale I fear in regards to the future and the rationale I work to vary it.
Work to vary it, Ted, do you see any progress there?
KOPPEL: Nicely, there might be progress if certainly this subsequent era can tear itself away from the Fb and the Twitter and the texting and begin specializing in – and, you recognize, clearly I sound like an outdated curmudgeon, which more and more I’m turning into. I do know there are lots of, many very vibrant younger individuals on the market. However I do fear in regards to the nature of communication at this time.
It is not useful. It is too quick. It is too abrupt. We have to replicate somewhat bit extra, and, you recognize, with that, is the expertise on the market? You wager it’s.
CONAN: Let’s go subsequent to Rafael(ph), Rafael with us from San Antonio.
RAFAEL: Hello Neal.
CONAN: Hello.
RAFAEL: I simply wish to say I’ve solely came upon about this present not too way back, so I am sort of unhappy that it’ll be taken away from me so quick. However on what your visitor is saying about communication, about the way it’s too quick, that’s really what makes me optimistic. Due to the truth that it is so quick, we’re in a position to unfold concept increasingly quicker.
Social media, the Web, all that, that makes me completely satisfied as a result of they can not hold us at the hours of darkness.
We created our personal media, which is individual to individual. As a substitute of getting to undergo a center man, akin to a information community or a corporate-sponsored information community, we have been in a position to speak to one another with no filter, uncooked, proper there, simply – I imply, take a look at the Arab Spring. I imply, Fb helped somewhat bit with that…
CONAN: And to emphasise Rafael’s level, Ted, we take a look at what is occurring in Turkey these previous few weeks, the place what was traditionally a society very in a position to suppress dissent has been unable to take action partly as a result of it has been unable to manage the information media as a result of individuals can talk on Twitter.
KOPPEL: By way of social communication – and I draw a transparent line of distinction between social communication and journalism. Journalism actually does require sure disciplines. They’ve rusted, for essentially the most half, today. We’re not seeing an excessive amount of it, significantly on radio and tv today, NPR mercifully being one of many exceptions. You continue to get nice journalism on NPR.
Journalism requires somewhat bit greater than merely individuals speaking with each other on Fb or on Twitter. I agree that, when it comes to the political affect, when it comes to the social affect, it’s enormous. However for those who look again on what the expectations and the hopes have been for the Arab Spring when it first broke out in Tunisia and in Egypt, they haven’t been realized.
The – you recognize, the truth that sure tyrants have been overthrown is a primary step, however it’s not an finish in itself. And for those who take a look at the situation that Egypt is in at this time, I am undecided you could say that big progress has been made. I am undecided you could say that big progress, you recognize, is – we do not know the place issues are going to go in Turkey.
I agree, you would not have the demonstrations with out the social media, however, you recognize, revolutions take a very long time, and the outcomes of revolution take generally many years and even generations to mature.
CONAN: And revolutions’ historical past tells us, will not be fairly.
KOPPEL: They by no means are. And the mere indisputable fact that persons are in a position to, kind of, provoke public conferences and have interaction in demonstrations which can be very, very participating to look at on tv or to take heed to on the radio, that does not imply, essentially, that political progress has been made.
CONAN: Rafael, thanks for the purpose, and thanks very a lot for the decision. And we’re sorry we’re not going to be round somewhat longer for you.
RAFAEL: You are taking care, man. You are taking care.
CONAN: So lengthy. We’re speaking with Ted Koppel at this time as we conclude our collection of conversations “Trying Forward.” You are listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR Information.
This e-mail from Ed(ph) in St. Louis: I am a bit youthful than you and Ted, born in 1964 – everyone seems to be youthful than me and Ted – and one of many issues I am hopeful about is how my era is leaning in to the problems of our day. Many people expertise downsizing and different severe cultural disruptions which have brought on us to take deeper inventory in our lives. We’re realizing we are able to not drift via life and should work at issues now in contrast to any interval.
Ted, I hate to learn issues into an emailer’s message, however it appears like a number of the focus that folks developed through the Despair.
KOPPEL: I am not fairly positive I get the purpose, Neal. Assist me out on this one. The place are we going right here?
CONAN: Nicely, as a result of instances have been so powerful, individuals who have been drifting via life earlier than, now understand they should buckle down and get to work.
KOPPEL: Nicely, I, you recognize, I do not assume the issue at this time is an unwillingness of individuals to buckle down. I feel the issue is the tens of millions of unemployed who’ve given up hope, the tens of millions of unemployed who’re not even counted or listed as a result of they’ve stopped on the lookout for work.
You realize, does large unemployment focus the thoughts and get individuals to work more durable? Sure. After all it does. I do not doubt that for a minute, and in that sense, I assume I see the analogy you make to the Despair.
However what got here out of the Despair was a era of people that desperately held on to any sort of good job they may get – the oldsters who, you recognize, who joined the Submit Workplace, the oldsters who joined the Customs Service, the oldsters who went into the army again within the Nineteen Thirties as a result of a authorities job was the perfect factor you might hope for.
You realize, that was one of many issues that got here out of the Despair. I am undecided if we’re fairly there but, or if – in reality, I doubt that we will be getting there. I do not assume the nation is dealing with that sort of financial turmoil.
CONAN: Let’s get Nettie(ph) on the road. Nettie is with us from Austin, Texas.
NETTIE: Hello. Thanks for taking me on the road. I am actually going to overlook you, Neal.
CONAN: Thanks.
NETTIE: I grew up listening to you with my grandpa driving me round. So I actually am going to overlook the present. I am very, very hopeful, solely as a result of I stood within the gallery two nights in the past on the Senate listening to. And at 12:05, I seemed across the gallery, and it was full of each women and men, 50-50, out for their very own, you recognize, their very own perspective on the trigger that was being mentioned.
And so I am extremely hopeful that at 48, with a 17-year-old daughter, that women and men are united in a majority and that almost all is once more turning into the individuals, not decided by our Democrats or our Republicans. And I feel the best hazard sooner or later is constant to foster inner xenophobia inside our nation, in order that we do not know our neighbors and we’re afraid to go to our personal neighborhood due to all of the issues that the media tells us to be afraid of. So…
CONAN: Nettie, in fact, is referring to the occasion the opposite day on the state capital there in Austin the place Democrats, led by state Senator Wendy Davis, filibustered the abortion invoice and ran out the clock, and it was previous midnight, and so the votes didn’t rely. However, Nettie, I’ve to ask you. We all know that Governor Perry has referred to as one other particular session. That invoice goes to cross.
NETTIE: Nicely, the invoice goes to cross, however I imagine it’s going to be within the courts after that. However the larger factor to achieve from what occurred is that I feel our state goes to go blue. And I feel that when it comes to even social media, having over 200,000 individuals watching the YouTube stream – YouTube stream at one within the morning is exceptional. And what it says is that persons are engaged, and it is not about ladies’s rights. It is not about males’s rights. It is about humanity’s rights.
And the press can’t be complicit and hold us from information anymore due to this tide of all of the adoption of all these instruments. So I am very, very hopeful, it doesn’t matter what you stand – the place you stand on these points, that we now have new methods to speak and that women and men are collectively displaying up at this occasion.
CONAN: Nettie, thanks very a lot for name. We recognize it.
NETTIE: Thanks.
CONAN: This is an e-mail that we now have from Nancy. I am a grasp’s degree social employee and don’t earn sufficient to stave off scholar mortgage funds. It is troubling that we’re encouraging our kids to pursue faculty schooling, however we’ll have to put an emphasis on the careers that can earn essentially the most cash and never on the careers that can assist the most individuals.
Nicely, what encourages you in regards to the future? What retains you up at night time? 800-989-8255. Electronic mail us: speak@npr.org. Stick with us. We’re wrapping up our dialog “Trying Forward” with commentator Ted Koppel. I am Neal Conan. It is the TALK OF THE NATION from NPR Information.
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CONAN: Right here on TALK OF THE NATION at this time, we’re wrapping up our collection of conversations “Trying Forward.” Commentator Ted Koppel is with us from member station WBEZ in Chicago. And, Ted, if the listeners will indulge a second to speak about our personal enterprise, I’ve to say you’ve got had two horses shout out from beneath you this week. “Rock Heart” died earlier this week.
KOPPEL: Sure. Nicely, I used to be going to say, Neal, if anybody within the broadcasting enterprise is listening to us proper now, and I believe some are, keep away from me.
(LAUGHTER)
KOPPEL: I’ve some sort of skilled plague. Poor outdated “Rock Heart” had the rug pulled out from below it, and I went to what they referred to as a wrap social gathering final night time. A wrap social gathering is the place all of the workers, lots of them now with out jobs, get collectively on the expense of NBC. And I’ve a few drinks and a few canapes and begin pumping one another about what jobs can be found on the market and now, at this time, with you. So I’ve, simply as you appropriately put it, had the “Rock Heart” horse and now the TALK OF THE NATION shout out from below me.
However that provides me a possibility to level to the excellent news for me. In contrast to so lots of your listeners, in contrast to the tens of millions on the market who’re listening proper now, Neal, I can’t miss this program however merely given that it was by no means heard in Washington within the first place. That is about the one good factor I’ve to say about not having been in a position to hear…
(LAUGHTER)
KOPPEL: …TALK OF THE NATION all these years is that, you recognize, I by no means acquired used to listening to it within the afternoon. However I do recognize speaking to a fellow journalist who has rules, who has intelligence, who has expertise and brings all of them along with a terrific appreciation for the intelligence of his viewers. You may have at all times completed that, and I’m satisfied that the chance will come up once more for you do to it sooner or later sooner or later. The place? You have not confided to me but, however I am positive it’s going to occur. Cream rises to the highest.
CONAN: Ted, that is very sort of you to say, however that is a really small silver lining – tarnished silver lining. You’ve got managed to determine that.
KOPPEL: Sure.
CONAN: I not too long ago heard – Charlotte emails us – I not too long ago heard Michael Moore say he was optimistic, which shocked me, contemplating the pessimistic matter of lots of his documentaries. When questioned, he stated it was as a result of the younger individuals at this time is a complete – are extra accepting of one another – whether or not that’s race, sexual orientation, spiritual perception – of variations generally. Upon reflection, I’ve to agree that for essentially the most half, that is true. I feel that is why the Republican Occasion is having such a tough time attracting youthful individuals. When the outdated white guys that appeared to manage numerous the points of this nation cross on, there is a good chance it is going to look an excellent deal otherwise.
KOPPEL: I purchase that. I feel – I take that is completely true. In actual fact, my spouse and I we’re speaking about it, simply on the flight out right here to Chicago. The extent of tolerance that younger individuals have for each other, for individuals of various backgrounds, totally different religions, race, sexual orientation, that actually is one thing wherein, I feel, we are able to all rejoice. So, sure, somebody has recognized one thing that I can sit up for with hope.
CONAN: Let’s go to Summer time – and if I can push the button appropriately – there we go. Summer time is on the road with us from Cascade, in Idaho.
SUMMER: Hello there.
CONAN: Hello.
SUMMER: I simply wish to make a remark. What actually worries me as a younger voter is partisanship in our authorities. I feel that is it is extraordinarily dangerous. It causes individuals to blindly take sides, and it would not actually enable them to type their very own opinions, and it halts numerous progress in our authorities. And that we additionally are likely to abuse issues that needs to be – we should always strategy with humanity. And we are likely to take sides based mostly on our personal political opinions, like Trayvon Martin, for instance. I imply, that is the case of a homicide of a younger boy, but we turned it right into a Republican and Democrat warfare.
CONAN: Tradition wars and partisanship, Ted. We all know, once more, as college students of historical past, that this nation was bitterly divided at durations prior to now. You consider 1800 or so. However it would not appear to me there’s been something fairly like this in our lifetime.
KOPPEL: Nicely, and I feel that we within the media bear a big duty for it, Neal. You realize, the very fact of the matter is that while you and I started on this enterprise, we tended to focus extra on what we thought the general public wanted to know. And I am talking extra of business tv and industrial radio than I’m of NPR.
We centered on what the general public wanted to know, as a result of we had a duty below the FCC rules to function below public curiosity, necessity and comfort, and we feared – or a minimum of the house owners of our networks and stations feared that in the event that they did not try this, in the event that they did not have a information division that counterbalanced all the cash they have been making from leisure, that they could really lose their licenses, or a minimum of have them suspended.
That’s not the case. And the very fact of the matter is that the main focus now could be a lot on having to divide the pie of listeners and viewers amongst – within the outdated days, it was ABC, NBC and CBS. Now, there are millions of choices on the market. And that implies that they should focus increasingly and extra on giving the general public what it desires fairly than what it wants. And one of many issues they discovered that the general public desires is partisanship.
And so you will have MSNBC on the left, and you’ve got Fox on the fitting. And you’ve got Jon Stewart on the left and you’ve got Invoice O’Reilly on the fitting, or you will have Rush Limbaugh on the fitting. And the top result’s, as your caller – or as your listener factors out, the top result’s that we’re always at warfare with each other, on the lookout for methods wherein we are able to discover fault with what we’re doing fairly than looking for some sort of compromise and progress. And that is a really, very harmful pattern.
CONAN: Summer time, thanks very a lot for the telephone name.
SUMMER: You are welcome. And thanks a lot. I actually love your present.
CONAN: Thanks. Oops, I hung up on her earlier than she might end saying good issues about me. Boy, there’s any person who wants one other 35 years on radio. This is an e-mail from Analisha(ph) in St. Louis: There’s so much on the market to maintain me up at nights, definitely. I am troubled by a complete slew of issues: terrorism, our crumbling atmosphere, the unethical garment trade, goings on in Syria, human inequality, the truth that the Web and tv is killing literature and human connection, drones, or the cancellation of TALK OF THE NATION. Even so, I do know in my coronary heart the long run is vibrant.
We’ll be OK as a result of we have at all times been OK. Goodness prevails. It has to. Believing in any other case will solely destroy us. Each time I am feeling too torn up about dismal present occasions, I replicate on a quote by Anne Frank: “Regardless of every thing, I imagine that folks actually are good at coronary heart.” If she believes it, there isn’t any motive we should not. And Ted, that could be a reminder that as bleak as issues may look now, prior to now, they’ve seemed bleaker.
KOPPEL: Nobody has ever stated that you must dispose of religion or hope. And I feel that what that message conveys is a message each of religion and hope, and the very last thing on this planet I wish to do is undermine confidence in both a kind of.
CONAN: Let’s go to John, and John is on the road with us from San Antonio.
JOHN: Sure. Neal, a few years in the past, you helped to show me into an optimist once I was ranting and raving, and also you turned me round. And your screeners prompt I let you know that one of many issues that causes me to be an optimist about America is Thursday morning, beginning in Louisiana after the younger troops had left Thursday afternoon – effectively, Wednesday afternoon, San Antonio, Fort Sam.
I used to be taking these younger guys who simply graduated from AMEDD as medics to learn to bounce out of completely good airplanes at Fort Benning, Georgia. And the younger individuals of America, like my six grandkids, 4 sons and one daughter brought on me to have hope sooner or later, and you probably did, too, sir, for years. However I’m inclined to agree somewhat bit with Ted. I bear in mind Walt Kelly’s sketch of 40 years in the past wherein he stated, we met the enemy. They is us.
KOPPEL: He’s us, yep.
CONAN: Yep. “Pogo,” in fact.
JOHN: “Pogo,” proper.
CONAN: Do you continue to have your pew stamps, John?
JOHN: Sure, sir.
(LAUGHTER)
CONAN: No person…
JOHN: And, by the way in which, I am Ted’s age. My first historic reminiscence was that Sunday after we have been coming in from close to the LBJ Ranch to San Antonio and my dad had the automobile radio on, and I heard that FDR had died at Heat Springs.
CONAN: My goodness. John, thanks very a lot for the decision, and we recognize the recollections.
JOHN: And thanks. And, by the way in which, you are somewhat bit just like the well-known lion that C.S. Lewis wrote about in “The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.” You may be again. You may be again.
CONAN: Yeah. Issues didn’t end up effectively for him, proper? There was this…
JOHN: Nicely, sure. However you will not be sacrificed. You may be again, as a result of I am watching. And I do know you may’t hold an excellent man like Neal Conan down. You may be again.
CONAN: Thanks very a lot, John. And…
JOHN: Someplace.
CONAN: …we’ll attempt to keep away from the crucifixion if we are able to probably can.
KOPPEL: I used to be going to say that it is a very good analogy, as a result of as I recall my C.S. Lewis, the lion was a God-figure, wasn’t he?
CONAN: Proper. He was a God – effectively, a Christ-figure, in any case.
KOPPEL: A Christ-figure, sure.
CONAN: Sure, certainly. This from Barb: As an immigrant, this nation is filled with individuals like me. We come as a result of we imagine in a greater life. We all know the long run’s vibrant. After 33 years, no regrets.
Michael in Anchorage emails: It’s true America has issues, and it’s fashionable, ever since 9/11, to speak about how down America is. We’re nonetheless the strongest economically and multi-culturally, and when it comes to concepts and political beliefs that we’re steadily shifting ahead. Let’s talk about America’s power.
Devlin in Ontario, California, excuse me, writes: Folks make me optimistic for the long run. Although my volunteer work with African Nicely Fund, a nonprofit group devoted to the mission of funding the development of fresh water and sanitation initiatives in sub-Saharan Africa, I have been lucky to work with individuals who noticed an issue and are working to vary that downside.
There are kids as younger as 4 volunteering for us who imagine in doing proper, who wish to give water to individuals missing clear water, feed individuals with out meals, home individuals with out houses. For them, change is that easy and proper. They usually make me imagine, too.
This from Scott in Oklahoma Metropolis: What scares me are the long-term penalties of the disappearing middle-class. I concern my kids will see large-scale civil unrest from individuals who imagine upward mobility not exists.
And lots of of those individuals have, effectively, simply to keep away from embarrassment, they’ve stated good issues about this system. And I thank all of them for that. Ted, you will have, as effectively. I needed to ask you, lastly – we simply have a few minutes left. As we transfer forward, is there one thing that you will be engaged on subsequent that we needs to be listening to?
(LAUGHTER)
KOPPEL: I do not know. I – really, I’m a terrific believer within the wonders of shock. And it has at all times occurred in my life – and I’ve no motive to imagine that it will not occur once more now – that one thing great at all times crops up. Folks at all times have nice concepts. Each on occasion, I also have a nice concept. However you and I owe one another a minimum of a cup of espresso and possibly lunch or dinner someplace and, you recognize, possibly we’ll exit and begin a community collectively.
CONAN: Hey. We might placed on a present.
KOPPEL: We might placed on a present. You write the music.
(LAUGHTER)
KOPPEL: I am going to write the lyrics. Oh, effectively.
CONAN: Ted, thanks. It has been an honor. I referenced Daniel Schorr at the start of this broadcast. One of many nice honors in my life is to work with individuals as sensible as you and Dan.
KOPPEL: Nicely, you are very, very form. And, Neal, I actually imply it. Cream does rise to the highest. One thing will flip up. We are going to hear the voice of Neal Conan once more, and it may’t come too quickly for me. And I do know communicate for tens of millions of others.
CONAN: Ted Koppel joined us from our bureau in Chicago. WBEZ was our bureau in Chicago. Now, it is a member station in Chicago. Ted, thanks as at all times. You are listening to TALK OF THE NATION, from NPR Information.
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