On Tuesday’s The Source, CNN host Kaitlan Collins and Senator Tom Cotton (R-AR) debated the issue of whether IVF is endangered by abortion laws.
CNN’s The Source
September 17, 2024
9:42 p.m. Eastern
KAITLAN COLLINS: Senate Republicans today blocked a bill that would guarantee access to the very thing a lot of them say they support. It’s also the very thing we have heard from Donald Trump say that he supports. Democrats tried and failed again to pass that measure which would guarantee access to IVF nationwide, and tonight they are using this vote to hammer Republicans who said no. My source tonight on this is Republican Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas. Senator, great to have you here because you and your fellow Senate Republicans mostly voted against this, arguing that it’s a show vote. But Donald Trump, as you know, recently pledged to either have insurance companies or the government pay for fertility treatments. So would you have voted for a bill like this if he was in office?
SENATOR TOM COTTON (R-AR): Well, Kaitlan, first off, I have to correct almost everything you said there in the lead in there, almost none of which was accurate about this bill. First off, there’s no risk to IVF in this country. All 49 Republican Senators, along with President Trump, support IVF. No state restricts or bans IVF. Second —
(cross talk)
COLLINS: I didn’t say that in the intro, but go ahead.
SENATOR COTTON: — this bill was about a lot more than just IVF. You said that it had to guarantee access. Access is guaranteed in all 50 states right now. You also said that it was about IVF. It’s about a lot more than IVF. This bill would mandate coverage for experimental, controversial procedures like cloning or gene editing or providing for fertility treatments to men who think they’re women, whatever that means. It would also imperil religious liberty. I support IVF as President Trump does. We also think that we should allow, say, Christian hospitals to operate their affairs as they see fit, according to the dictates of their conscience. And it’s not surprising that Democrats don’t agree with that. They’ve long persecuted Christians like the Little Sisters of the Poor. They want to provide contraception coverage for nuns.
(cross talk)
SENATOR COTTON: Okay, Senator, forgive me. Can we — let’s stop you there.
COLLINS: Or they harass Catholics who go to traditional masses. That’s what this bill’s about, Kaitlin. No, Kaitlin, you’re not going to stop me there because you’re misrepresenting what the bill is about. The bill is about infringing on religious liberty.
COLLINS: I know you don’t — well, let’s have a conversation about this bill and this legislation itself. You’re saying that what I said was inaccurate that this would guarantee access to IVP — which is what it would do. You’re saying that no state restricts it, but no state, you know, guarantees it. The issue — which I know well because this happened in my home state of Alabama — is a court ruling that embryos count as children, and then these IVF clinics, a lot of them closed in Alabama as a result of this because they’re worried about lawsuits or about the state attorney general coming after them. That is why this is an issue. And your candidate, Donald Trump, has said that he would like to see IVF and people have access to this. So do you support guaranteeing access to this? So do you support guaranteeing access to IVF so a ruling like that one in Alabama would not imperil someone’s access to it by clinics saying, “Well, I’m going to close because I’m worried about facing a lawsuit here or criminal charges”?
SENATOR COTTON: Kaitlan, the example of Alabama proves my point. You had the supreme court of Alabama ruling on an old law — they felt their hands were constrained by a law, and what happened? The political branches of the Alabama government who are elected by and accountable to the people promptly passed a new law that guaranteed access to IVF in Alabama the same way every other state guarantees access to IVF. This bill in the Senate was not about guaranteeing access to IVF which is not threatened in any state. It was about radical, experimental, controversial treatments — things like gene editing and cloning — and it infringes on religious liberties — which, again, shouldn’t be surprising because the Democrats are the party that want to harass and persecute nuns or investigate Catholics for going to traditional masses. That’s why we oppose that bill and will continue to oppose it.
COLLINS: But, Senator, this bill would have guaranteed access to IVF, and you’re saying that it would have forced people to do things against their religious beliefs. I should note, this bill doesn’t require anyone to perform any operations or procedures. It just says that people should have access to IVF. And it also talks about having insurance companies cover the cost for fertility treatments — something that your candidate supports. So just to be clear, I’m not misrepresenting the bill. You can say you don’t like it — you can say that you think it’s a show vote — you can talk about those aspects of it, but this is something that was put out there, and it would have guaranteed access to IVF.
So let me ask you while you’re here, given you’re a major surrogate for the Trump campaign. His proposal here is that he would like to have the government or insurance companies cover the cost for fertility treatments. Has the campaign explained to you yet how he would pay for that plan?
(SENATOR COTTON)
So if you’re an American out there, and you’re maybe someone who is in Alabama, and you’re worried about having access to IVF not because the state is saying that they’re going to make it illegal, but because there’s no clinics open in the state because they’re worried about supreme court rulings that could imperil access to it. And if the legislature had not acted — which they did under political pressure — if you’re someone out there and you’re looking at these two candidates here ahead of November, Donald Trump and Vice President Harris, and they see what Trump is saying he’ll do, but they’re wanting to know, “Is this real?” And if there’s no plan to pay for it, how do they know that it’s a real proposal?
SENATOR COTTON: Well, Kaitlan, again, IVF is not at risk in any state, and the Alabama example proves the point. The legislature acted promptly to change — what was an old law to ensure access to —
(cross talk)
COLLINS: Why did they have to act if it wasn’t in peril, sir?
SENATOR COTTON: Because a supreme court decision. That happens all the time. Courts make decisions —
(cross talk)
COLLINS: That imperiled access to IVF.
SENATOR COTTON: Kaitlan, courts make decisions interpreting laws — often old laws that haven’t been updated to reflect changed circumstances all the time, and legislatures come back and they change those laws. That’s what happened here.
COLLINS: Okay, but my question was about the plan to pay for the proposal.
SENATOR COTTON: Again, we can review those details at a future time. There’s reasonable questions about the cost of it, either the taxpayer or in premiums, and how we would protect the religious liberty of all of our citizens, but Donald Trump, just like all Senate Republicans and, for the most part, all Republicans I know, all support IVF. What we don’t support are the kind of radical proposals that Kamala Harris has addressed — like on the abortion question, she wants a nationwide abortion law that would mandate all states allow partial-birth abortion up to the moment of birth and deny life-saving care for any child who is born during a botched abortion. That’s what’s truly radical.
COLLINS: And, of course, as you know, she wants to Roe versus Wade codified into law which would go up to viability or about 24 weeks. Senator Tom Cotton, thanks for your time.
SENATOR COTTON: Well, I notice that she won’t answer a single — she won’t answer a question about what — she won’t answer a question about what month it is appropriate to reasonably protect the rights of unborn children. Is it the eighth month? Is it the ninth month? She won’t answer any of those questions, Kaitlan, because she knows her radical views on these questions are out of step with the American people.
COLLINS: And, Senator Tom Cotton, Trump did not say on that debate stage as well when she didn’t answer that question, if he would veto a national abortion ban. We’re out of time, unfortunately, Senator Tom Cotton. Thank you very much.
